Comments on: four little indians

By: club soda

club soda — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:38:31 +0000

Hey Deb,
The “hard working, family-oriented American” is up against your ideology. Not Deb as an individual, per se, but your views that are then translated into what is destructive public policy: atheism/agnosticism, gay rights advocacy (last I checked they had the same rights as everyone else, just not the state’s sanction of their relationships as “marriage”), pro-choice, and a confiscatory tax system. This is not a “feeling” I have, but is rather based on reason and evidence. I too supported all those views until I actually looked closely at the consequences of that ideology on society when put into practice through policy. Perhaps I’ll address each issue in future posts with my evidence. My hope is that you’ll argue the evidence rather than my psychology. There’s nothing worse than making an argument that’s refuted by something like, “You must be racist or homophobic, or insert the ad hominem of your choice here.” I’m certainly not accusing you of doing that, but I put it out there because it’s a rather common response when one disagrees with another’s ideology. For instance, I’ve been called racist in not so many words for opposing Obama’s policies. The actual response to my unhappiness with the election results was, “You’re not happy because he’s a black man.” If true, then I would be unhappy with Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court, when in fact he’s my favorite Justice. I could care less about either Obama’s or Thomas’s color or ethnicity; what I care about is how they make policy, and that’s what I care to debate. And, just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I have anything against you personally. A good friend of mine here is unabashedly liberal, and even had the gall to wear an Obama t-shirt to my house. Needless to say, we have some spirited debates, but it never devloves into name-calling or other worthless rabbit trails. I think he’s misguided, but I like him a lot and have never held his ideology against him.

By: Deb

Deb — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:57:10 +0000

Nemov:
I was trying to give club soda a compliment by praising his participation in the protest. Sorry for the confusion. I was half asleep!!!
Anyways, your reply is exactly why I hate discussing politics with people or watching the major news channels. I would classify myself as an agnostic/atheist (still exploring), huge advocate for gay rights, pro-choice, supporter of the current tax policy, and a Hannity and Limbaugh hater. But my views are the product of my life experiences, education, and how/where I was raised. I try to remind myself that.
So why do I bring this up? Because using stereotypes are easy and self-fulfilling. They simplify people and issues to make them manageable and easy for us to understand. And worst of all, it divides people.
I am not discrediting your beliefs about left-wing protesters or people who support taxes. But is it that simple? Is this when I am supposed to chalk up your comments as ramblings of a narrow minded racist?
club soda:
I greatly appreciate your honest reply and your willingness to acknowledge that you may have over generalized. I think we all need to acknowledge that more often! Including me of course!!
I don’t have a problem with people expressing their opinions about others. My issue is when we begin seeing our opinion as fact. Confirmation bias plays a big role in this. I also think that making comments like “My hope is that the hard-working, family-oriented American wins the day and wins back our country” could also fall under the “invective and mean-spirited” category. I mean, who is the “hard working, family-oriented American” up against? I think we all are guilty of falling into a mindset that we are fighting for the greater good.

By: club soda

club soda — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:46:59 +0000

Hey Deb… What nemov said is correct. I would add a couple of things as well to clarify… I’m okay with taxes, but I’m not okay with my taxes being spent irresponsibly on a whole slew of things the government is not Constitutionally allowed or obligated to do. I did not mean to imply that people who support all the spending and taxing, and so on and so forth, are not hard-working and family-oriented. I was merely describing the type of person I met at the Tea Party. Also, I’m okay with left-wing protests. It would be disengenuous of me to trumpet the cause of the Consititution and liberty if I wasn’t. Perhaps I’m painting with too broad of a brush, but my experience has been that you are far more likely to encounter the profane screamer at a left-wing rally than you are at a right-wing rally, just as you are far more likely to run across profane, depraved comments on the Huffington Post than you are at TownHall.

By: nemov

nemov — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:57:13 +0000

It’s fair to point out that most war and abortions protests on the left aren’t exactly family friendly. This doesn’t mean Club Soda doesn’t support the right to protest.
Most people who support tax increases are either…
a) Don’t pay taxes
b) Are super wealthy
Since neither group can pay for government by themselves they force big government down everyone’s throats.

By: Deb

Deb — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:12:56 +0000

Wow! You really hate taxes huh?
I actually enjoyed reading your post until the last paragraph. Do you really believe that most people who support the tax increase are less hardworking and family-oriented? And whats up with the insinuation that most left-wing protests are profane and mean spirited?
I always support the right to protest and give kudos to you for actively participating in a cause that you feel strongly about. I think more people should do that. But I also recognize the importance of remaining humble and developing an appreciation for different perspectives.